Please notice how the actual size and shape of the glass base differs between the two in addition to the nature of the “stamp.” The Saint Gobain bottle on the left shows the use of some sort of engraving method to carve the words deep into the glass itself. One think you can usually count on imo is that if it says 7 after the No it’s 1/4 oz, 15 is 1/2, 40 is 40 mls, etc. Whatever the reasoning or cause, I highly doubt any owner would defile a bottle of genuine, authentic perfume with a “dummy” marking unless it actually *WAS* a display/dummy bottle filled with non-perfume. After looking at numerous bottles from various decades for both Shalimar and other Guerlain fragrances, I have a few thoughts and impressions but, in all candour, I don’t know how accurate they are. If you focus too much on the look of the presentation box or whether it has a horse on it, you may miss out on a truly fantastic bottle of fragrance. This design was used for other Guerlain parfums as well, like L’Heure Bleue or Mitsouko. They simply wanted to get rid of it without going to the trouble of a lot of fancy photos or details. What then? With regard to the dolphin label, I completely agree that the visuals were smoother, cleaner, more uniform, and more pristine in earlier bottles, especially with regard to the black trim. I have no idea if this was true, but I got this explanation from a lady who worked with Guerlain in Germany in the 1950’s already. From what I’ve read, all the bottles apparently came with marks from the start since each of the crystal or glass manufacturers put their symbol on it. I have never tried any Seriously Vintage Shalimar, though, and maybe that makes the difference… but probably not, given my usual tastes. Is the number one destination for online dating with more relationships than any other dating or personals site. Let’s just say that I’m going to take a number of days off, shut off the internet, and lie collapsed on the sofa or bed like poor Gregor Sansa flailing about like a cockroach on his back in The Metamorphosis. I haven’t been near a computer to reply before now, so I hope you’ll forgive my late reply. The photo collage below summarize things by showing the main or the historically significant bottle designs for vintage Shalimar parfum during the 20th century. Photo: my own. Red/Blue stickers that lacked the word “Belgique” seem to be from 1950 to 1956/1957, as shown by my third photo up above. The N is just missing a small o it seems, possibly faded over time? Yet, the one and only bit of information that the seller provided was its measurement, and even that was just a rough estimate, somewhere around 4″ (inches) from stopper to base. Photo: Basenotes member, nmdragonfire. The photo, though, shows a sort of squiggly line (which I had thought was just another scratch in the glass) which might actually be the leftover remainder of a Baccarat symbol etched into the glass. Sorry. ), and I also don’t know what concentration you’re talking about. http://www.ebay.com/itm/BACCARAT-LARGE-6-5-Vintage-Shalimar-Guerlain-Crystal-Perfume-Bottle/201676726661?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649 I’ve never seen any “bat” bottle that bears the mark of either company manufacturing. In two instances, if you knew the exact height of your bottle, you could figure out that it was made by Saint Gobain sometime from 1981 to 1984 or 1981 to 1986! And the Guerlain Perfumes blog makes no mention of a Marly horse design on any parfum bottle, either.). In addition, I’ll share a few of the tips that I’ve picked up for navigating eBay listings and finding hidden gems, sometimes for a more affordable price than expected. (And, once again, all the height measurements go from the very top of the glass stopper down to the bottom of the base.). Those two also bear a paper stamp, but lettering is so fine that they seem to be etched in acid. Sounds wonderful, Reddtx. I read every word and checked out the Guerlain blog. Shalimar proved to be so successful that in the 1960s, a rival company decided to cash in on the popularity and launched a perfume of the same name, a legal battle ensued, forcing Guerlain to temporarily replace the perfume's name with its stock number "No.90" on bottles that were exported, mainly to the United Kingdom. It’s one of those things where the learning curve is initially steep but then, suddenly, it becomes much easier and one can (almost) whip through the many eBay listings to single out the bottles which fit your precise parameters. I also got a Marly box in a satisfyingly dusty purple. In the 1970s, both the look of the stamp and the method that was used engrave the letters changed. I recently had to use a sort of reverse engineering or backwards analysis based on nothing more than the height dimensions (inches) of a listed bottle in order to figure out its size and possible date of release. Ha, Option C! Starting january 1 liter, 1, an older bottles. With that word of caution, let’s move onto the specifics. but I cannot wait to find the time to bury myself in ebay listings. Shalimar Eau De Toilette also smells like a vanity box that is filled with pristine white evening gloves as well as silver cigarette holders because it is from another time and era. The situation with Cristal Romesnil and Pochet et du Courval is interesting. [Update: as noted above, this bottle actually is an Avion one, which explains the corked stopper.]. On the other hand, there are signs that point to the 1960s or perhaps even before. Jan 31, 2015 - Guerlain No.90 (Shalimar). If there is a sticker on the bottle, look at their Sticker guide instead. It’s interesting, however, and I appreciate you sharing it. Shalimar Wimble and John Terry had an encounter in Mar 2005.. About. I have no doubt that it’s utterly glorious, a real feast for the senses. The text is in two colours, red and blue, the word “Belgique” is included, and the Roman numeral is located on the lower right. As you can see from my photo, the color of the velvet itself has faded into a pinkish mauve due to age. It seems to be a 1950s to 1957/1957 stamp according to your guide since it lacks the word “Belgique,” has Roman/Latin numerals, and “magasins de Paris” in the text. My kudos to the both of you. And you know how I know that? So, if you see a listing for a “1967” bottle, ask for the other numbers on the box or the bottom of the bottle. For the most part, when it comes to the very old bottles of vintage Shalimar, one is basically using deductive reasoning to draw imprecise inferences and conclusions from wholly circumstantial evidence. . It’s absolutely encyclopedic in its knowledge and focus, but I confess that I initially found it to be more confusing than parts of the Internal Revenue Code (and I find the U.S. tax code to be quite indecipherable). I realise that all of this is deeply technical and probably quite boring, but it’s intended to train your eye to recognise the “acid etching” issue for bottles dating from the 1930s to the 1960s, and to instantly pick out the Saint Gobain bottles from the 1980s onwards. SHALIMAR PARFUM – THE SIGNATURE “BAT” OR “URN” BOTTLE & ITS FOUR MANUFACTURERS FROM 1925 to 1986, VINTAGE SHALIMAR EXTRAIT IN OTHER SHAPES & DESIGNS, OTHER CONCENTRATIONS OF SHALIMAR – THE EDC, EDT, PDT & EDP & THEIR BOTTLES, SHALIMAR PARFUM – RARE OR LIMITED EDITION – THE “AVION” BOTTLE, SHALIMAR PARFUM – THE MARLY HORSE EDITIONS, THEIR BOXES & THE ISSUE OF DATES, SIGNS ON THE “BAT” PARFUM BOTTLE ITSELF — THE LABEL, SIGNS ON THE “BAT” PARFUM BOTTLE ITSELF — BASE STEM & BASE MARKINGS, WORKING BACKWARDS — FIGURING OUT SIZE AND/OR DATES VIA HEIGHT MEASUREMENTS, SUMMARIES, RESOURCES & eBAY TIPS — KNOWLEDGE IS POWER & DETAILS CAN LEAD TO BARGAINS, A Guide to Vintage Shalimar – Part III: Bottle Designs, Dating Bottles & eBay Tips, The Average, The Banal, The Bad & The Ugly Lists, narrowly focused just on the bat or “Chauve Souris” bottle, Dating Shalimar bottles. Compare the look and wording of those stickers with the one below which dates from 1967 to 1976. I purchased @ auction many years ago a vintage bottle of Shalimar body/bath oil produced circa early 1950's before the introduction of the 15 ml. Make of that what you will. A Guide to Amber - Part I: Types, Definitions, Materials & Scent. Vintage Shalimar Eau de Toilette, 8 oz 1976 bottle on the right. Yours seems to be monochrome with both a letter and Arabic numerals, while the sticker in the link above is red and blue with Roman numerals in the bottom left. OTHER CONCENTRATIONS OF SHALIMAR – THE EDC, EDT, PDT & EDP & THEIR BOTTLES: Vintage Shalimar Eau de Cologne in the “Watch” or “disk” bottle next to its post-1967 “Zebra” box. Saint Gobain des Jonqueres seemed to take over the production of the “bat” bottles from 1981 to 1986. It is. Unless you luck out and find a seller who was the original purchaser of the bottle, their relative who knows the history of the bottle, or someone with incontrovertible and specific evidence (like a receipt with the date of purchase, for example), then you can never know with absolute certainty if a bottle dates to, say, the 1950s, the 1960s, or any other decade prior to the 1970s. ], I’ve generally stayed away from the Umbrella or Rosebud formats for vintage Shalimar because I’ve always sought the largest bottle that I could find, so that I don’t have to hoard the scent or apply miserly amounts, and because significantly larger sizes are available for the “bat” bottles. (eBay almost never has anything from earlier unless it’s an empty collectible.) Everything looked like accidental scratches. I’d lost a previous 4.2 oz bottle when I’d been unwilling to go above $225, and I’d been willing to go that high for this one because the juice in this was loads darker. If you are able to get the picture of the base from the link, you will now have the elusive Cristal Romesnil acid etched logo photo. Just adding on – I came to say that I have several Guerlain extrait bottles, Shalimar/LHB, which have been around for long enough that the etching is no longer easily visible and probably would require more careful photography than most Ebay sellers could come up with to show up in a photo. On the other, if I hadn’t used a camera in extreme close-up, playing with angles and light, then playing with contrasts in the photo editor to make things…er… moderately… or vaguely clear, I wouldn’t have noticed anything whatsoever. In the 1980s and later, the eau de toilettes were widely found in a narrow, rectangular-looking bottle design or in various types of atomiser canisters, like a gold lattice-looking one. She had no idea of the latter’s significance, but it is a purple one marked “Presentation Avion.”]. I become so reluctant to use it up that I often end up not wearing it at all. You should also consider whether or not it’s accompanied by the “Zebra” /zig-zag outer case. Hahaha, the son/Angela thing is so funny, but perfectly understandable. I haven’t opened it yet (will do in the morning so I can enjoy it ALL DAY), but I can smell it a bit from afar and I am all giddy. Register and search over 40 million singles: voice recordings. Right now, at the time of this post, there is a listing on eBay asking $1100 for a 30 ml, 1 oz bottle of “vintage Shalimar” in a limited-edition, Baccarat bottle. On a “price per ml” basis, that’s much higher than the amounts that I’ve seen the “bat” bottles go for. I will definitely keep an eye out for a bottle as a result. The stopper was not inside the bottle itself but was inside a tiny cardboard box which was included in the presentation box. I collect vintage fragrances. It’s an innocuous looking list with a seemingly mundane set of minutiae and I initially thought it was quite irrelevant, scrolling quickly past it each time I saw it during the last two months, but something suddenly clicked in my head this weekend: what if I could use the height measurements to not only figure out the amount of juice in each bottle, but also, in a few cases, the general age of the bottle? Keep an open mind about everything that you see on eBay — from bottle photos to what the boxes may look like or the sellers who don’t seem to know what they’re talking about. I must say the sheer amount of information is kind of daunting (but ultimately, so incredibly useful!) Use the search links I provided at the end of the post, Mary. In two instances, those changes correspond to when Saint Gobain was in charge of the bottles during the 1980s. One might not know if a bottle with a glass stopper is an Avion one or not. Check details on bottle and box to know the exact date. Photo: my own. ): So, that’s it! I wish I could. That leads me to think that the “Avion” bottle might have been a one-off thing and didn’t extend beyond 1960. Jan 31, 2015 - Guerlain No.90 (Shalimar). I paid a decent price, too (and the seller was fantastic, it arrived in mint-condition). The site shows that vintage Shalimar parfum came in quite a few other shapes besides the “bat.” Some I’ve never seen before. Happy hunting, Anne! Photo: my own. It always slips my mind and I end up calling it internal product codes. Ever. To my eye, none of them look like heavy crystal in the way that the Baccarat does. These bottles were made by both Baccarat & Pochet et du Courval, look for their logos on the base, an entwined HP or the Baccarat symbol. We’re getting to the end. Source: Pinterest. I’ve never read anything about the top/bottom thing anywhere. You might be interested to see that there is currently a bottle for sale on e-Bay that claims to be a “Cristal Nancy” 2oz. My point is, if you’ve never tried a really old version but you love vintage scents generally, then you’re in for a treat with your bottle. I am having a Mitzah-like meltdown I think. Anything “post-zigzag” or post-1967 seems to have a thicker black border whose width is noticeably Uneven around the label. So, my tips or pointers are, like everyone else’s tips and pointers, merely rough guidelines. J'ai un penchant pour les hommes virils, un Dating Perfume Shalimar Bottles peu ours, Dating Perfume Shalimar Bottles je reconnais avoir une certaine attirance pour les hommes machos. Both of those factors would influence my eventual decision. I was stunned to find that it had not; the purple box and bottle were intact inside, and buried within layers of protective packaging. Pingback: Guerlain Vintage L'Heure Bleue: Parfum & EDP (1960s-2003) - Kafkaesque, Dear Kafka, I collect vintage fragrances. It’s an amount far below what it’s worth and also far below what I’d put in as a maximum bid. Things changed again in the 1980s when Saint Gobain took over the production of most of the Shalimar bat bottles from Pochet and/or Baccarat. Personally, I find all the rest of the CR or Pochet stuff to be confusing and deeply unhelpful. Each distinct bottle possesses its own personality. That’s it. If the 1960s one is bigger in ml size and darker in juice, it may be just as good FOR YOUR PERSONAL WAY of using fragrances as the 1950s. The look, size, and location of the logo seemed to vary. Thank you SO MUCH for all the information, I would never even have thought about looking on American ebay without you and your massive amount of knowledge, much less been able to actually find a worthy bottle. Vintage Shalimar, 4.2 oz Baccarat bottle, date uncertain. SIGNS ON THE “BAT” PARFUM BOTTLE ITSELF — THE LABEL: All of this, every single thing that I’ve written thus far, is useful under a certain set of circumstances, like whether the bottle has extra dark juice or the eBay seller has photos of the box. That’s a tough one. They seem quite rare. Well, the font is much finer on my two Marly bottles that date to the 1960s/1950s and the 1960s. About reviewer (185 reviews) Age 30-35. And their 1 oz bottles aren’t commonly or easily found on eBay. “Dating” can be an extremely technical, arcane, and overwhelming process at first and I found it quite confusing myself when I started out, so I’m going to try to make things as simple as possible by using as many photos as possible to show the small differences between bottles. And there is absolutely no manufacturer’s mark at all. So, if you’ve lasted this long and also read everything, Bravo! Ah well, too late now! [Photo lightly cropped on the edges by me.]. Early 1950s sticker because it’s in red and blue, it does not have the word “Belgique,” and the Roman numeral is located on the left. Mind if I ask how much you got it for? I don’t detest modern Shalimar, but it’s not to my taste either. So dating a jug of vintage Shalimar can have a generous effect. With regard to the white cotton band, I’m sorry to say that it’s not at all exclusive to the Avion bottle. In all cases, though, the parapluie/umbrella bottles are only 7.5 ml or a 1/4 ounce in size, and I believe they measure roughly 3 inches in height. The Shalimar bat bottles are Baccarat and you can see how they gleam in the light. That’s relevant because their bottles have a telltale giveaway: the stubby, squat, and chunky look of their stem. Source: eBay seller, goldstar972. The tiny bottle of Emeraude is a proper vintage version maybe around 1930-1940s. Immensely useful article, it deserves only one word: BRAVO ! It sounds to me like it actually *is* a factice or dummy display bottle. My cork-stopper bottle which has one turns out to actually be a 1960 Avion Presentation bottle, so I can’t use that to conclude the stamps were in usage in the 1970s. This practice lasted until the 1970s. Dating vintage Shalimar on eBay, The Average, The Banal, The Bad & The Ugly Lists, A Guide to Vintage Shalimar – Part III: Bottle Designs, Dating Bottles & eBay Tips, Guide to Vintage Shalimar by year or bottle, Saint Gobain des Jonqueres Guerlain bottles, What are the differences between Shalimar concentrations, A Guide to Vintage Shalimar – Part I: The Parfum (1950s, 1960s, 1970s & 1980s), “The Dog Ate My [Chanel] Homework”: Apollo, Happy 2021: Puppy News, Alta-Tollhaus, & German Shepherds, Amouage Crimson Rocks & Changes at Amouage, Guerlain Jicky — The Modern Parfum, The History, & The Old Legend, New Launch: Boujee Bougies — Original, Fun, Witty & Creative Niche Candles, Scent, Pandemics, Escape, Dogs, Baking, and Surviving 2020, A Beginner's Guide To Perfume: How to Train Your Nose, Learn Your Perfume Profile, & More, Perfume Review - Tom Ford Private Blend Tobacco Vanille, A Guide to Vintage Shalimar - Part III: Bottle Designs, Dating Bottles & eBay Tips, "The Dog Ate My [Chanel] Homework": Apollo, Ensar Oud Aroha Kyaku Oud & Sultan Leather Attar. 623 should be Bouchon Coeurs for everything, not just Mitsouko. Also, the caveat — “and quite possibly beyond” — is one that I’ve added myself because the 1978 dates given by the blog seems to refer, I think, merely to when Guerlain changed its official measurement from cc/ml/oz to just ml/oz. Over the decades I’ve seen many try to pass dummies off as real perfume…I’ve never seen the reverse though it’s probably happened somewhere. Thank you so much for this EXTREMELY helpful dissertation on vintage Shalimar! The Guerlain Perfumes article says that the teardrop bottle was in production from 1923 to 2001. Perhaps the “HP” logo in earlier decades was etched in acid. As a side note, the dates listed may not be set in stone. I finally got near a computer and did a manual Google search for that listing by number and saw the photo. The bottle on the right is older. Before I start, I want to underline once again something that I said in Part I: there is a lot of guesswork involved when trying to date anything much earlier than 1976 which is roughly when Guerlain began using codes on its bottles and boxes. A 4.2 oz Baccarat bottle of vintage Shalimar that I recently bought. Just wondering as in the oakland, this bottle … For those in splash bottles I decant half into a modern dark blue spray bottle and then seal the splash bottle with wax and keep it in a dark closet in my spare bedroom - about 12-16 degrees most of the year. Vintage Shalimar parfum with detailed wording on the label and accompanied 1983-1999 black/gold box.
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